380
69
Mr. Russell inquired whether it was seriously intended to tax opium consumed in the Colony.
Sir R. Hart said some arrangement could be made for refunding that portion of the tax to the Hong Kong Treasury.
Mr. Russell asked whether it was intended that Hong Kong should assist China in taxing opium going to Macao.
Sir R. Hart said that this was what China wanted.
Mr. Russell stated that he might say at once that he was not authorized to entertain any plan which proposed to tax opium consumed in Hong Kong or other places in which China was not interested. If opium going from Hong Kong to Macao was to be taxed, as Sir R. Hart proposed, not a chest would be sent from Hong Kong. Steamers coming from Singapore would call into Macao on their way and drop the opium there.
Sir R. Hart asked whether the hulks would be allowed.
Mr. Russell said that Hong Kong would not allow a foreign Power to establish a Customs Office on its territory.
Sir R. Hart admitted that the difficulty about Macao had not occurred to him. China could not interfere with foreign vessels going into Macao, but she could take very stringent measures to prevent opium leaving that port.
A discussion ensued about the amount of opium smuggled into China from Hong Kong. Sir R. Hart estimated the quantity at 5,000 piculs. Mr. Russell thought that this was much beyond the mark, and asked whether Returns could be obtained of the quantities which reported at the Native Customs. Sir R. Hart undertook to obtain these. Mr. Brenan explained to Shao Taotai the objections to Sir R. Hart's scheme; the principal objection being that it would divert the trade to Macao.
Shao Taotai acquiesced, and said the result of efficient measures in Hong Kong would be to send smugglers elsewhere.
Mr. Russell stated that he had thought of a plan by which Hong Kong could help China, but before proposing it Hong Kong must be satisfied that China will obtain similar co-operation from Macao.
July 3, 1886.
Present:
Shao Taotai, Sir R. Hart, Mr. Russell, and Mr. Brenan.
Mr. Russell asked whether China had any proposal to put forward other than the one already made by Sir R. Hart.
Sir R. Hart said he had no other plan.
Mr. Russell said that, as Article VII of the Chefoo Convention had been appealed to, he would recall the circumstances under which it came into existence. Ten years ago there were frequent complaints of the interference of the Canton cruizers, and Sir T. Wade, while discussing other questions with the Viceroy Li at Chefoo, had obtained from his Excellency a promise that a Commission would meet to devise some means of removing these grievances. This was a concession from China to England, and not from England to China. Clause 9 of the Additional Article of 1885, in referring to the Chefoo Convention, misquoted its terms, and amounted to what is termed a misdescription. Mr. Russell maintained that clause 9, if properly interpreted, did not put Hong Kong under any obligation to assist China in the collection of its revenue.
Sir R. Hart thought that clause 9 might be read as an elaboration of Article VII of the Chefoo Convention.
Shao Tuotai remarked that we had met in pursuance of Article VII; Mr. Russell had stated that Hong Kong had now nothing to complain of, unless, therefore, we had met to consider some means of securing to China her revenue, we must seem to have met for nothing.
Mr Russell said that it was at China's urgent request that the Commission had now met. Mr. Russell referred to the scheme put forward by Sir B. Robertson when named to sit on the Hong Kong Blockade Commission. This scheme provided for the establishment of a Customs station on Chinese territory near Kowloon. Mr. Russell understood that this plan had received the approval of Sir R. Hart. This was the first time that there had been any proposal to place hulks in the harbour. The scheme put forward by Sir R. Hart practically amounted to this: that in clause 2 of the Additional Article of 1885, for the words, "it is agreed that foreign opium when imported into China," there should be
T [257]
380
69
Mr. Russell inquired whether it was seriously intended to tax opium consumed in the Colony.
Sir R. Hart said some arrangement could be made for refunding that portion of the tax to the Hong Kong Treasury.
Mr. Russell asked whether it was intended that Hong Kong should assist China in taxing opium going to Macao.
Sir R. Hart said that this was what China wanted.
Mr. Russell stated that he might say at once that he was not authorized to entertain any plan which proposed to tax opium consumed in Hong Kong or other places in which China was not interested. If opium going from Hong Kong to Macao was to be taxed, as Sir R. Hart proposed, not a chest would be sent from Hong Kong. Steamers coming from Singapore would call into Macao on their way and drop the opium there.
Sir R. Hart asked whether the hulks would be allowed.
Mr. Russell said that Hong Kong would not allow a foreign Power to establish a Customs Office on its territory.
Sir R. Hart admitted that the difficulty about Macao had not occurred to him. China could not interfere with foreign vessels "going into Macao, but she could take very stringent measures to prevent opium leaving that port.
A discussion ensued about the amount of opium smuggled into China from Hong Kong. Sir R. Hart estimated the quantity at 5,000 piculs. Mr. Russell thought that this was much beyond the mark, and asked whether Returns could be obtained of the quantities which reported at the Native Customs. Sir R. Hart undertook to obtain these. Mr. Brenan explained to Shao Taotai the objections to Sir R. Hart's scheme; the principal objection being that it would divert the trade to Macao.
Shao Taotai acquiesced, and said the result of efficient measures in Hong Kong would be to send smugglers elsewhere.
Mr. Russell stated that he had thought of a plan by which Hong Kong could help China, but before proposing it Hong Kong must be satisfied that China will obtain similar co-operation from Macao.
July 3, 1886.
Present:
Shao Taotai, Sir R. Hart, Mr. Russell, and Mr. Brenan.
Mr. Russell asked whether China had any proposal to put forward other than the one already made by Sir R. Hart.
Sir R. Hart said he had no other plan.
Mr. Russell said that, as Article VII of the Chefoo Convention had been appealed to, he would recall the circumstances under which it came into existence. Ten years ago there were frequent complaints of the interference of the Canton cruizers, and Sir T. Wade, while discussing other questions with the Viceroy Li at Chefoo, had obtained from his Excellency a promise that a Commission would meet to devise some means of removing these grievances. This was a concession from China to England, and not from England to China. Clause 9 of the Additional Article of 1885, in referring to the Chefoo Conven- tion, misquoted its terms, and amounted to what is termed a misdescription. Mr. Russell maintained that clause 9, if properly interpreted, did not put Hong Kong under any obligation to assist China in the collection of its revenue.
Sir R. Hart thought that clause 9 might be read as an elaboration of Article VII of the Chefoo Convention.
Shao Tuotai remarked that we had met in pursuance of Article VII; Mr. Russell had stated that Hong Kong had now nothing to complain of, unless, therefore, we had met to consider some means of securing to China her revenue, we must seem to have met for nothing.
Mr Russell said that it was at China's urgent request that the Commission had now met. Mr. Russell referred to the scheme put forward by Sir B. Robertson when named to sit on the Hong Kong Blockade Commission. This scheme provided for the establishment of a Customs station on Chinese territory near Kowloon. Mr. Russell understood that this plan had received the approval of Sir R. Hart. This was the first time that there had been any proposal to place hulks in the harbour. The scheme put forward by Sir R. Hart practically amounted to this: that in clause 2 of the Additional Article of 1885, for the words, "it is agreed that foreign opium when imported into China," there should be
T [257]
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